will i be liable???

Discussion in 'General OT' started by manerdie, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. manerdie

    manerdie Active Member

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    i have a buyer of my car who is into "buy and sell"... he told me that he wont be transferring the cars ownership to him, we'll just be signing a deed of sale...what if his future buyer wouldn't transfer the ownership also, to save some cash for the "transfer cost".

    if the car is involve into an accident or unlawful event, will i still be liable for it? considering the cars or/cr still has my name. Is the Deed of sale enough proof that it is no longer on my possesion already...

    TiA

    p.s.
    ....super excited..getting a new turbocharged toy...woot woot...early christmas gift for myself
     
  2. prankie

    prankie Member

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    Just have a notarized copy of a closed deed of sale between you guys + his IDs and i think you'll be fine.
     
  3. neo100

    neo100 Member

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    the safest is to consult a lawyer about this. small things like this can cause you trouble my friend.
     
  4. gaol

    gaol PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Best to have a clean transaction, no loose ends like having the car still registered to you.
     
  5. DATC

    DATC Member

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    I agree with prankie's suggestion on having a notarized deed of sale. That is your proof that you sold the car already and that you received payment from him. It is up to the buyer to transfer the ownership at the LTO, it is not your responsibility.
     
  6. kenshinx

    kenshinx Active Member

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    Agree. You cannot oblige the buyer to transfer the ownership to himself.
     
  7. bontistic

    bontistic Member

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    Deed of Sale is only valid for 1 year, after that, if the owner's name is not changed, you need to prepare a new one.
     
  8. kenshinx

    kenshinx Active Member

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    With the deed of sale you may not be liable but if the car is used in any criminal activity, you will be questioned by authorities, because LTO records will show your name as the owner of the car.
     
  9. anton_mac

    anton_mac Member

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    the only way to be sure you will have no liability whatsoever is to have the vehicle transferred to the buyer immediately. this is the best way to protect yourself from any possible liability in case of an accident or if the vehicle is used in an illegal activity. im no lawyer, but in my opinion, this is the safest way to go about selling your car.

    im a bit on the paranoid side, so i prefer erring on the side of caution.

    i recall an incident in the news a year or so ago about the case of a person buying a 2nd hand car from a used car dealer, paying in cash, then refusing to sign the deed of sale and just took possesion of the car and the signed "open deed of sale" of the previous owner. the car was subsequently used in a crime. guess where the police first went, yup, the previous owner of the car.

    be safe sir. just my 2 cents. cheers
     
  10. ice

    ice PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is for real property only.

    Back to the topic...

    Based on my experience, biggest hassle is when the car is used for a crime. But for small road accidents, normally its the driver who is liable.

    This is a normal practice by buy and sell agents especially if the car is first owned.

    If you don't feel comfortable and don't want any future hassle. You'll have to ensure that the car's documents are transferred upon sale.
     
  11. Juice

    Juice PhilMUG Addict Member
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    First thing on Monday, inform your insurance company. Send them a copy of the deed of sale. If you feel that you're not secure with the arrangement, convince him to transfer it. Report it car-napped since it's still in your name(just kidding).

    I strongly advice that you to transfer it to the buyer's name. In Filipino "Para walang sabit". Good lawyers can convince the judge that it's still your liability.
     
    #11 Juice, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  12. carlodude

    carlodude Member

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    Just make sure that the deed of sale is notarized.

    This makes the document a public document proving that you already sold the car. Without this, you cannot prove the sale, especially if the new owner doesn't want to transfer the ownership.
     
  13. greta87

    greta87 PhilMUG Addict Member

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    The act of registering the transfer is the act that binds 3rd parties. The deed of sale alone only binds the seller & the buyer. & if anything happens to the car & any other person not connected with your sale, this 3rd party can run after you being the owner of record.

    & juice is correct, if your car is still insured, inform your insurance company right away about the sale. That way they may actually transfer the coverage in favor of the buyer. Failing to inform them of the sale may invalidate the insurance cover after the sale. Actually if your buyer wants the unit insured with himself as the beneficiary, his insurance company will most likely require that title be with him already. Otherwise there is no insurable interest.
     
    #13 greta87, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  14. Tuli$an

    Tuli$an Active Member

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    IMHO, "open deed of sale" cannot be notarized. Heck, technically not even legal and binding. Make sure DOD has complete info of seller and buyer, properly signed and notarized. That way, you are not liable anymore from the date indicated in the DOD. Doesn't matter if it's not transferred immediately since you cannot force the buyer on what to do with it after he paid for it.
     
  15. anton_mac

    anton_mac Member

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    yes its true, you cannot force the buyer on what to do after he paid for the car already. But you as the owner/seller, however, can likewise refuse to sell your vehicle if he does not want to agree on the immediate transfer of the vehicle.

    here is what i usually do as owner/seller, when the buyer really wants to buy my car and offers to pay for it already, i tell him that ok, i get the cash, ill give you the car and 1 copy of the deed of sale that we both sign, then i do the transfer myself, forward to him the new OR and CR in his name after a week or two plus another copy of the deed of sale thats already notarized.

    if he doesnt like it, then we part ways without the transaction pushing through.
     
  16. Tuli$an

    Tuli$an Active Member

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    Not sure if it matters but what if you submit an original notarized copy of DOD along with a photocopy of OR/CR to the LTO? That way you're not liable anymore even if the buyer doesn't transfer the ownership immediately.
     
  17. abcdee

    abcdee Member

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    sold all our cars a few years back and the buyer n i made 2 sets of deedofsale, 1 is open with just my sign in it and the other is notarize..

    Buy&sell guys will never buy your car if you insist it to be transferred because they will sell it as "first owner"... Look for better buyer end user) instead since its a buynsell so probably your price is really low..
     
  18. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mmm....echoing the common sentiment: insist transfer of ownership immediately. An open deed of sale is not legally binding even if it is notarized. A lawyer who agrees to notarize knowing that the buyer has not signed the instrument may be liable for falsification of a public documemt. Same goes for the buyer and seller. Until and unless it is recorded properly in the notarial book, it is just a scrap of paper. Therefore, you are unnecessarily exposing yourself to potential liability issues arising from the use and misuse of the vehicle. If the transfer cost is a deal breaker for the buyer, offer to assume it or for your account. Peace of mind.
     
  19. prankie

    prankie Member

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    Legally, (no fixers involved) you cannot transfer to the new owner without the car being present at the change of ownership process. (Pnp clearance, stencil, etc)
     
  20. mnx

    mnx Active Member

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    i hope this reply is not too late... i personally know of an incident where the owner on record paid for damage caused by his sold vehicle despite him having an open and closed deed of sale...

    i've no info on whether he sold it directly to the buyer or to a "buy and sell" who eventually passed the vehicle to another...

    note too that if the vehicle is caught in violation of traffic laws by a traffic camera and/or caught involved in a hit-and-run accident by a camera and/or witness, the authorities and/or other parties will go after the registered owner...
     

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