dear people, let us not talk about the prices (Apple IS utterly overpriced), but I have to make a decision: to buy or not to buy. What concerns me most are all the problems I read about. How widespread are these? Do I only read these because those with problems are just more vocal and in reality these problems are more or less rare? My own experience with problems are these abominations of batteries. Had to have it replaced twice on my old 17 inch macbook pro (9 years old) - and it is bulging again. thanks for feedback Horst
dear Horst, Don't buy it. I am sure any PC brand will do one better than Apple like MSI, Acer, Xiomi, Asus & Samsung snipes
sn snipes, thanks. but could you be more specific? what exactly ARE your reasons? What about Lenovo? I slowly get the impression that nowadays one buys computers like disposables. If they don't work after two years (DO they last that long?), well, you buy a new one. For the price of the macbookpro I had in mind, I could easily buy at least three new computers, one every two years - and there is no guarantee whatsoever that the new macs are as long-lived as my old macbookpro (despite the battery problems) thanks Horst
Horst, my reasons are based on the complaints you have enumerated about your 9 year old Macbook Pro and the current Macbooks. Lenovo Thinkpads are as unreliable as your Macbook Pro so best to avoid those as well. All consumer devices and goods are designed not to last a human lifespan. You're lucky if it'll last you a quarter century or 1 decade! your welcome snipes
That's precisely the mindset that you now should have when you buy a MacBook or a MacBook Pro (including similar ultrabooks made by others)--think of them as disposables. For a MacBook or MacBook Pro, to be safe, give it a 3-4 year life expectancy, and 2-3 years for all the rest. I own a 2009 13" unibody MacBook Pro (thus, I know where you're coming from) and a 2016 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar (thus, I also know my expectations when I bought that "disposable" electronic "appliance"). In deciding whether you should buy a 2017 MacBook Pro, kindly bear these in mind: butterfly keyboard still has issues and costs US$ 700 to repair - while reports such as this one shows that the 2017 keyboards are less prone to failure than the 2016 ones (which conform with my own experience, as my keyboard had already been replaced with the 2017 one), it's really annoying when it fails, as it's usually the keys you strike the most that get stuck/non-responsive. Worse, if it fails right after your warranty or AppleCare coverage had lapsed, prepare to shell out US$700 for the replacement. Why US$700 even if your problem is only with one (permanently) stuck key? Because the keyboard is part of an entire top case assembly which also includes the Touch Bar and battery (which brings me to my next point); if your battery fails when your warranty/AppleCare had lapsed, prepare to pay US$700 - because, as mentioned above, the battery is part of an assembly which includes the keyboard and Touch Bar; if your SSD dies, you must replace the mainboard - because it's soldered onto it. I don't know how much, but it's gotta be more than US$700 for sure; Retina screen is prone to “staingate” - based on my own experience the Retina screen of the 2016 MBP scratches easily, even though I only wipe it lightly using the black cleaning cloth that case with my 2009 MBP. It’s also prone to “staingate”, which occurs when its anti-reflective film peels off; AppleCare is a must - so that you don’t have pay if any of the above happens within the 3-year lifetime of your MBP. Thus, the best mindset to have is to buy the MacBook Pro bearing in mind that you’d be using it for only 3-4 years. Better yet, just expect 3 years out of it, i.e. while your MBP is covered by the 1 year warranty plus 2 years of AppleCare. That was precisely my mindset when I bought my 2016 MBP. If it lives beyond 3 years, I’d consider myself lucky, but I’m prepared to buy a new one immediately as it turns 3 when its AppleCare coverage ends. That’s really just how it is now, unfortunately. Btw, my 2009 13” MBP is still doing fine. I’ve since upgraded its RAM to 8GB and its HDD to a 256GB SSD, and have replaced its battery and SuperDrive. It now just serves as a backup/standby unit, though my daughter uses it everyday for watching cartoons. Sadly, Apple doesn’t make notebooks like these anymore.
Better check with the Mac Rumors Buyers Guide It gives reasonable recommendations if you should buy a particular Apple item or not.
I agree with Qin. How I wish my own laptops would have lasted for 9 years! For a time I have bought top of the line Windows laptops but they ended up worn out, physically damaged (I carry them a lot) and slow (I use the latest OS as much as possible) in just 2 to 3 years. I was in a similar situation some few weeks ago when I did this purchase. Mine was - should I wait for the next release of Macbook Pro (rumoured to be around June) or just buy one right now because I don't have a computer to use. I ended up doing the latter because of the need. Some people here were able to upgrade their old notebooks (because the older notebooks are upgradeable and you can still do DIY if you are far techical enough. The recent models don't allow you much to upgrade - you have to decide to upgrade now or you just simply can't and have to live with the setup that you can afford. I learned enough that the current issues that Macbook Pro users are having - staingate, stucky up butterfly keys, etc - aren't really new to Apple. In fact, they have sometimes released products (not just the Macbook line) and have design issues. It's a tradeoff for introducing innovations and improvements that other brands may have or may not have ventured and trying to see how the market responds (there's a separate thread here, I think). Example: bendgate on iPhone 6 (due to aluminum used), iPhone 4 (AntennaGate), etc.
dear all, THANK you for taking the time to respond. your feedback has been a great help. Having grown up with Macs, starting with an old Mac+ I get the impression that Apple has joined the club of all other computer manufacturers, i.e., providing more or less unreliable products. A keyboard with hiccups is just too much for someone like me spending about 8 hours in front of the screen, writing an encyclopaedia. Don't know yet which other computer I shall buy - have to check if they do what I need to do - but for Macs and the unbelievably overpriced products it is good bye now. Well, good luck to all those who have one and my best wishes that the worst case scenario will "walk or use a wheelchair" to meet you Horst
You can still buy the older 2015 15" MBP that still has the older keyboard design. They are more reliable and they're much cheaper. https://www.apple.com/ph/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2ZP/A&step=config#
Sad reality is that OEMs make money by selling you new devices... Apple makes extra $$ when we buy apps from the App Store, upgrade iCloud, use iMusic etc. But for laptops, all our apps have been there for the longest time. Other manufacturers, they all hope we buy a new device everyday!
hm, thanks Arkaell. tried to go to that link but none of the links there functions (not with my ancient firefox running under OSX10.5.8, so I could not check the specifications. Besides, I have no credit card and refuse to own one, and I live in the back of beyond in the provinces. I suppose that this does not come with an educational rebate. Just wondering also what OSX this would be and if an older version of microsoft word for the Mac (version 12.3.6) would still run on it. I haven't posted here for ages and realise that the possibility of private messaging is discontinued. Otherwise I would have contacted you this way (even though I prefer old-fashioned email.
Introductory price of the Macintosh Plus in 1986 was 2,599 USD (equivalent to $5,802 in 2017) The 9 year old 17-inch Macbook Pro in 2009 was 2,499 USD The 2015 15-inch Macbook Pro pointed by @arkaell is ₱109,000 by comparison. Why a laptop that needs a battery (that will bloat on you again and again) when you use an external keyboard & mouse? Why not consider a desktop PC? You can pick up this Mac mini rival for ₱7,896. By using your current keyboard and mouse you can save! As you spend about 8 hours in front of the screen, writing an encyclopaedia why not attach that ₱7,896 wonder to a 32-inch TV that sells for ₱5,699? That is nearly double the diagonal size of your 17-inch Macbook Pro! If both breaks down after 14 years then it's ok, it only cost you under ₱14,000 That's P1,000/year!
There are few physical stores (that are not PowerMac) that still sell old models. In one of the iStudio branches - I found older models. Not an excuse anymore these days - we have several options available. If you plan to buy from online stores - a debit card (Mastercard/VISA) can work as well. Check with the bank if they can work with online payments. Some online stores also accept bank transfers, but be warned - credit card and debit cards are still way better (because you can do disputes, and hold payments, especially with the credit card). TIP: Paymaya, GCash Virtual Cards work well with internet payments. Some physical stores have tie ups with other credit institutions (Home Credit) if you plan to do installments. And of course, plain old cash is still acceptable. A lot of them has to accept ATM cards as payment. This is my issue now, I am having issues with the current version of MS Word that I have to look for other solutions. I learned that the apps will also have to be compatible and upgraded with the OS or else it'll crash on you (this is the case when also using apps with Windows as well). Good luck in your search, and let us know what you went for this time. EDIT: Changed iSwitch to iStudio.
thanks, preciousgem. I am too old and too old-fashioned to trust online stores. If I cannot go into a store, see the product, pay, and walk out with it, it does not exist. And I don't live in Manila, where there would be options. I tried to reach this ominous Charlie of beyond the box by email - he helped me in the past and the shop, when it was still called digital walker, I think, had good prices. But I never got a reply, so that is that. Also sencolink, which I found accomodating. I am interested in your microsoft word problems. Care to tell me what the problems are?
Agree. It is best to go out, try a product yourself, walk out, walk in, try again. Think. Think again. And think for the nth time before you pay a premium. I'm old myself - not a millenial - but I learned to trust online stores (well, the important thing is to know when not to trust, and to read a lot of reliable reviews). I sometimes prefer online buys them over the physical ones as the sales people do hard sell (PowerMac tried to sell me an additional insurance which I do not like). I bought my Mac and iPhone in a physical store, but the accessories came from online sites like Lazada (hit and miss there, know which merchants to look) and Amazon (good stuff). Another thing to worry is the financial data - credit/debit card info - so I only stick to trusted sites and make sure my computer is clean of any malware. I understand your issues - I am currently in Manila but I decide to be also back in my province for good and carry a Mac with me, this is an issue. I have to travel to Manila by bus to have it serviced. Good thing I know a bit how to deal with software issues and OS reinstallation (I'm an IT gal, LOL) so I can do this myself. But if it's a hardware issue, then off to Manila I go to have this serviced - and wait. MS Word/Excel problem - crashed on me earlier. I was trying to simply create a table from Excel and apply background fill on one of the cells. Crashed on me several times. In addition, both Word and Excel look too "small" on my Retina screen unlike other applications so I'd think the Microsoft developers have not optimized the application for the Retina screens. I forgot what crashed on Word last time, but I remember seeing messages on my screen so often when I tried to simply open or edit some of my existing files. I would assume you're a power user - that you need all the power stuff that Word can do such as automatic table of contents, end notes, footnotes, email merge and all that. I simply use Word and Excel for basic letters and tables (not even charts, pivots and graphs) so switching to other Office applications is just fine to me, as long as they worked. To me, Microsoft Office still is easier to use and has all the powerful and advanced features above all other Office applications that I have used.
now THAT remark about being old - not a millenial - really made me grin. that probably makes me your father's generation or even grandfather I am NOT a power user at all (and dislike this term, really). Word mostly has features that I do not need - a jack of all trades and a master of none. My needs are simple. I need bold, italics, colour, and that is about it. The only reason I stick to MS word is that I started with it as the only programme that did not crash when several huge files were open (4 MB then, now around 8 MB, and I need to have four of these open all the time). if I change the OS, I need to change the word programme, and that in turn would require quite a lot of analysis and rewriting of the perl programme that creates hypertexted web pages from the MS word source files - and I mean quite a lot of reprogramming as html has changed so much. The same would apply if I switched to libre office, no matter what OS, or if I used MSword under windows 10. But my old macbookpro is really ailing now after 9 years and after all I read about apple's hardware problems I am simply not willing to get skinned and fleeced and pay luxury holidays for the honorable apple owners and executives. have a good crash-free day Horst
Interesting. Have you considered getting Macbook Air instead? I think it might suit your current needs and is not as expensive as the Pro. Most importantly, it has no butterfly keyboard issues because the current ones in the stores still use the old chicklet keyboard. (However, there will be an upcoming release of model already in a few weeks or month's time, and no one has an idea if they will improve the keyboard or stick with the old chicklet type). A friend of mine claims that he is too happy to have bought it. He simply uses it for surfing the web, Word, Excel for office work and some few movies and online streaming. If your usage is roughly the same as my friend, then this laptop may also work for you. Plus the current Air model still has the old larger USB ports. The Pro has USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 and you will find yourself buying adapter accessories just to make it work with existing technology. Good luck!
you mean these small thingies that are more or less mouse cinema format? Goodness, I have several medical and gene/protein databank windows open all the time. the 17 inch old macbookpro was just good for that. 15 inch might do, but have not used it yet. AND: surfing the web? I'd rather been seen dead in a ditch than spending time on youtube or twitter or facebook. Tried it out, for me a complete waste of time. So much for surfing the web. I would not even notice if these three things suddenly did not exist anymore I think my main problem also is that I realise I have developed quite a dislike of apple. with their technically faulty machines they are now not better than any other brand of which you expect it to break down after a year or two. Horst
I am referring to the Macbook Air here: https://www.apple.com/ph/macbook-air/ Apple don't sell 17 inch beauties anymore! MacBook Air is a small notebook and the screen might be a worry. However, I think it is capable of handling the databank windows for it's 8 GB memory - I don't also think that the databank windows require a lot of processing power. Almost notebooks these days already have that cinema format for the screens - designed to the average consumer who often has to do a mix of word, excel, web surfing and movie playing. So even if you pick a PC one, you still end up with the same cinematic screen. Good for you. I tried, but then I found myself in a forum. And you might be far from any technical support if ever you need help fixing it. What I personally don't like about Apple these days is that you cannot do much upgrade on the hardware yourself - so you need to decide now if you need extra space, memory, processing power because you can't do that anymore once the laptop has already been built. If you have gone to iFixIt site, the recent models of MacBook and MacBook Pro are hard to repair due to proprietary stuff that they used. But to be fair to Apple, other big manufacturers such as Dell are following suit. The Microsoft Surface is even much more un-repairable that any of the Apple stuff. There are also a lot of premium Windows laptops that are as expensive, un-repairable and un-upgradeable as that of the Apple's as it seemed to be the trend these days. But the good thing with PCs - there are cheaper and better hardware options around, all with working reliable keyboards.
how hard it is to speak clearly. I do not consider the processing power. not much needed for word processing. It is just that a 17 inch machine allows you to see at least two open programmes side by side and have individual windows stacked conveniently, which on a small machine is not possible. and you are right about the attitudes of computer manufacturers: make them as unrepairable as possible so people are more likely to buy a new one. If I live long enough, maybe one day I'll go back to hand-written index cards (until the card manufactures discover a way that lets writing fade if it is not transferred to a new card - would not be surprised at all. your schoolbook writers have already discovered that it is more profitable to sell what they call a text book - however lousy it is often - and work in exercise sections, to make doubly sure that a sibling cannot use the same book and rob the honorable schools and the mostly incompetent writers who copy from wikipedia of their income. BAH!
