Recommend a UPS

Discussion in 'Other hardware discussions' started by Leon21, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Leon21

    Leon21 Active Member

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    I read thru the archived UPS thread but I couldn't fully get an answer to my question.

    My current UPS (Secure) provides around 650VA of power. Connected to this is: PC with a 750w PSU; Monitor; Airport Extreme and DSL Modem. However every time the power goes out, the PC and monitor shut off right away and is barely able to keep the Airport and modem alive. Exactly what power rating would I need to keep all of these alive for me to a) shut off the PC and b) enjoy the internet for a little while?

    I've been looking around at APC products but the higher the power, the more it becomes cost prohibitive. So are there other reliable alternatives that cost less?
     
    #1 Leon21, Nov 20, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Adel

    Adel Moderator
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    If you want one that's really, really cheap, reasonably reliable (depends on the user's expectations, really), you can try CDR-King's 1000VA UPS with AVR and Surge Protection. It's under P2k, and if it doesn't really work as long as you'd like, it's relatively painless to replace with a better one.

    Mine, after more a year and a half of service, has dropped down to just 2-3 mins of reserve power, down from 15-20 mins when it was new. But that's more than enough time to safely switch off my gear.

    Here's my Technoodling review from May 2012. HTH.
     
  3. DON2003

    DON2003 Well-Known Member

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    hi, I also using this CDRK UPS, no problem whatsoever, able to give me about 5-10min and it 'click' alot, tripping kick-in when some undetected power fluctuations, or does it tripping itself, hehe.

    but I would like to find an UPS that can connects to Mac, so it can shut down the system properly when no power after few minutes even when I am away, any recommendation?
     
  4. marky2115

    marky2115 Active Member

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    Get APC. A guy in TPC sells brand new and refurb units of different APC UPS models including batteries. Forgot his name but he's a premium member there and he really knows his stuff.
     
  5. jessec

    jessec Active Member

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    @adel, i am quite satisfied with your recommendation and using it with no problem but lately they don't have stocks.
     
  6. Leon21

    Leon21 Active Member

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    Thanks for the recommendation, Adel. I'll check that out when I visit CD-R King.

    On a related note, is it okay to connect an AVR to a UPS? I have a 1000v AVR that powers my PS3/Blu-ray Player/Receiver but I'm pretty sure it doesn't use up over 500v of power even with all of them on at the same time. So I was thinking of using a spare UPS with a lower rating and connect the AVR to that. Is that safe to do?
     
  7. Adel

    Adel Moderator
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    I guess it can't really hurt.

    But if you do get that CDR-King UPS, it's already set up with a built-in AVR and surge protector, so no real need.

    If you buy something else without an AVR/SP built-in, I guess you can connect your 1000V AVR to it, but keep in mind, an AVR/SP is usually good only if it has double the rated power of the source (some people even say triple, but I don't really know for sure, this might be overkill) so you'd be confined to a UPS with at most 500VA-650VA. If you listened to those "triple" people, you be confined to a UPS with only 300VA-320VA.

    At least that's what some people say. I don't really understand their mumbo jumbo.
     
  8. rbenzon

    rbenzon Super
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    For as long as I can remember, I've used APC UPS. I gave CDR-King's 1000KVA UPS because it was pretty cheap. No complaint here.

    I am looking to upgrade though. Anybody know where I can buy a storm surge protector? :)
     
  9. DON2003

    DON2003 Well-Known Member

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    yes, no complain for the CDRK UPS,

    is the APC supported by OSX? what I now want is an ups to shut down the iMac properly when power out after few minutes, sometime I wasn't home and when brownout, the CDRK UPS will drain all its juices,

    any recommendation? btw the CDRK UPS has usb interface but seems not supported by OSX, is there any 3rd party apps that can connects it to OSX?
     
  10. Adel

    Adel Moderator
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    I covered that in my old review in Technoodling.

    No, there isn't any third party app that allows you to use it with a Mac. I looked for one back then, and there wasn't any, and there still isn't today. I tried several back then, but none of them worked with the UPS. Such a shame.
     
  11. Leon21

    Leon21 Active Member

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    Reviving this thread.

    I've been researching some more online but I still can't get a definitive answer. I was about to buy another UPS so that I can connect my other electronics to it. Said electronics are currently connected to an AVR/SP with 1500w max power and the reason I need it is because I need them to be connected to a 110v power supply. However, the UPS I was looking at said NOT TO CONNECT an AVR to it. Other people online say it's okay, other people no, so I've hesitated.

    Anyway, the setup I was looking at is either:

    Wall connection -- > 650va UPS -- > 1500w AVR -- > electronics (Receiver | PS3 | PS4 | Blu-ray Player)

    Is this safe? Should I get a higher UPS rating (though Adel's previous posts seem to indicate no need to)? 99% of the time, it's only the RECEIVER + any one of the consoles or blu-ray player on at the same time.

    Yes, I'm aware most UPS already have a SP but I need the 110v connections for said gadgets and none of the UPS I've looked at offer 110v inputs.
     
  12. oj88

    oj88 PhilMUG Addict Member

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    My recommendation:

    Wall > AVR > UPS > 220V equipment
    Wall > AVR > UPS > 220Vto110V X'former > 110V equipment

    Most entry-level or budget UPS's outputs a square approximation of a sine wave in backup/battery mode. That might confuse the AVR, seeing it as a spike.

    If the UPS produces true sine wave, you may be able to put the AVR after the UPS.
     
  13. Leon21

    Leon21 Active Member

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    I take it APC would be the best bet for this?
     
  14. oj88

    oj88 PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Most (not all) of their Smart-UPS line are pure sinewave. The Back-UPS line are not.

    Cyberpower also has pure sinewave UPS's but it seems that only their budget models are available locally.

    EDIT: Correction. The 1500VA model is available... just on order basis I believe. It costs whereabouts of 16k, though. Still, it's a whole lot cheaper than an APC Smart-UPS 1500.

    http://www.cpsww.com.ph/products/ups_systems/pfc/cp1500epfclcd.htm
     
    #14 oj88, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  15. berniedd

    berniedd Member

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    No need to connect an AVR between the 220 outlet and your UPS if your UPS already has some kind of voltage regulator in it.
     
  16. oj88

    oj88 PhilMUG Addict Member

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    That's right. I should've made that clear.

    I employed this method on an old Tripp-Lite basic UPS many years ago and the idea kinda stuck.
     
  17. v8designstudio

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    Dear Leon,

    I think I know your hesitations, let me tell you my story.

    From about 8 years ago, all electronics in my studio are in some way attached to a UPS. APC actually.
    With 12 workstations and a big monitor for each, it is connected to its own 2200VA UPS. They sing like hell in unison everytime a brownout happens, you just really have to save your file and leave the studio to save your ear because you can't do anything else with all that decibel beeps. The money to pay for all this really adds up to a sum - and today, many years later I wished I had spent it for something else. I am now without UPSes for the last 3 years. They all died after the third and all other battery replacements lasted only for 6 months even without brownouts. So i called it quits.

    I never regretted that decision.

    While I no longer enjoy the extra minutes of life during brownouts, good software has given me enough wall to lean on to as most softwares I use in design and publishing now have auto save features that, like in our Philmug.ph reply boxes, your work is saved every few minutes. Great coding. A boot up after a brownout generally opens up all the current work your were doing - just so very nice!

    And the surges? like most everyone else, we have those too, but even minus the UPSes, my equipment are still working properly - possibly, my workstations have surge protectors built in too (possibly - im not vouching, but well... just possibly). Base stations are still working hard. ACDs are still shining bright. Sound systems are still singing.

    Technically, for the ridiculous prices we pay for these productivity tools, they really should be able to handle surges easy, and methinks they do, and a gujab at that.

    Now, focusing on you, i did notice, that at first, you needed extra run time for saving your work on a computer, but your later requirement has changed with playstations and i remember, a receiver (for audio and video perhaps). Not only has your requirement changed, but the equipment you want powered on too.

    Save yourself the bucks for the UPSes and give wife a spa treat instead. You can live without it. I actually worry more on your 110Volts systems than your UPS requirements. Those 110volt equipment is just something you have to let go in the future especially if you have kids that just love to stick em up all over the place.

    Bzzzttt....
     
  18. oj88

    oj88 PhilMUG Addict Member

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    ^ That might have worked for you but it doesn't mean that it will, too, for everyone.

    Let me just address a few of your concerns:

    About the beeps when it's on battery mode, APC's allows you to mute them at a press of a button, or if your units has the feature, through software. So the beeps are not an issue.... they're supposed to do that by design, unless you set it otherwise.

    If you have had the batteries replaced by an authorized APC service center, they do a whole slew of tests and calibration on the UPS on top of just replacing the batteries. Even further, they add a 1year warranty on their work (parts, batteries, labor). And they're not any more expensive as one might think.

    A UPS adds a layer of protection for equipment you consider to be sensitive. And it's really a personal preference; I have a home server, NAS, CCTV, a home theatre, a Presonus 24.4.2 digital console, among others, powered from a UPS. They're like airbags that don't see much action 99.999% of the time, but you're glad that they're there when you need them.
     
  19. v8designstudio

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    Dear OJ,

    I like it the way you float it like that. It's cute.

    However, my input was what came out of an experience, it was a story, and was not a concern, as well as a suggestion but not an order.
    You would have made more sense if you work for APC itself as a training staff so you can teach people like me what we already know many years before you were born.

    From where I am, i never enjoyed that APC service you eloquently display, despite the purchase of 10 units of an APC SURTA2200VA. When you do ask around for prices of these and open your calculator, you just might understand the frustration.

    But until you have made personal investments of that scale, maybe you wont ever.

    PS : If you wake up in the morning thinking you have a brain better than others, slap yourself in the face and try to wake up again. It would do you good, you'd be glad you did, just like airbags, sometimes, you really just dont see it coming 99.99% of the time.
     
  20. oj88

    oj88 PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Hi,

    Well, that was a surprise. :)

    First, I don't profess to be an authority other than saying that I do have firsthand experience from personally owning a few APCs and from working near those owned by my clientele (from 1KVA to a few hundred KVA APC MGEs/Symmetras or those from Emerson). I don't directly work on them, of course. I just stand and admire them from a distance. Never actually got used to the low humming sound which I find somewhat intimidating. :)

    Which leads me to the 2nd one...

    I am NOT affiliated with APC in any shape or form. What I am is a datacenter solutions guy focusing on Cisco enterprise network, voice, wireless and security, for more than 10 years now. Probably the closest I've been to repairing UPSs would be during the late 90's when I was then the lead techie that handles and repairs Tripp Lite UPSs.

    You say that you speak from experience. Well, so did I. If I had made any assumptions based on what you've shared, all you had to do was set things straight.. there's no need to be abrasive.

    Now, I may sound like I adore APC products... well no, not really. What I said was on the premise that IF you already own an APC, it would be wise to have it repaired or the batteries replaced professionally. I understand now that your experience dealing with APC has not been as smooth as what you'd expect after investing money on what were arguably, premium products. I truly am very sorry for you.

    Anyway, this is where I'm coming from... Given my background, I thought I could save money by just buying the batteries someplace and service the units myself. Upfront, it did seemed like I saved a bundle. But several months later, one particular unit failed again with a bloated battery. Since the seller I bought it from only offered a 60 or 90-day warranty (can't remember which), and I was clearly beyond that, I was dead in the water and decided to just put the UPS in storage.

    But then about 3 years ago, I learned of this company from work that's an authorized APC service center. I asked for a quote just out of curiosity for the repair of my dead UPS. I was surprised that it was only a few hundreds higher than what I spent to replace the batteries previously. And as part of the battery replacement package, they'll check the charging system, calibrate it if necessary, before they put in new batteries. That was just it, a calibration drift that caused my UPS to overcharge the batteries. Long story short, the UPS got repaired and it's still serving me to this day.

    Don't, for any second, think that I am looking down on you. Let's just freely exchange thoughts and ideas without ridicule.

    UPS's I own: Aside from a Back-UPS CS 500 which I bought brand new several years ago, all my other APC units (an RS 500, Back-UPS Pro 650 and a Del/APC Smart-UPS 700) were bought used online. And just for the hell of it, I recently gambled on a cheap Intex brand, 650VA model to power up a switch and an access point in my home IDF on the 1st floor. They're no SURTA2200VA, I know. The most premium I have is the Dell DL700I (a rebranded APC SU700INET). But, what do I know? ;D
     

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