China Telecom

Discussion in 'OS X Server / Xserve / Networking' started by Juice, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mm....oh, so you are saying that Globe and Smart should charge us more for their crappy service before they start improving their speed? Globe and Smart, in 2017, reported net income of around Php 13 Billion apiece. Kulang pa ba? Wowowie! Anak ng alibaba and the forty thieves!
     
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  2. snipes

    snipes Active Member

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    No for profit company will agree with not making a profit.

    Telenor Norway services far lesser subscribers than either PLDT or Globe.

    Our service is relatively cheap to other nations so quality of service suffers.

    Below are the data rates for the world's fastest data network.

    P2,850.00 (449 NOK) 10GB
    P1,450.00 (229 NOK) 2GB
    P2,530.00 (399 NOK) 5GB
    P1,580.00 (249 NOK) 1GB

    Source: https://www.telenor.no/privat/mobil/mobilabonnement/

    Smart and Globe should offer an option to pay for priority.

    If you want Norway speed then pay for Norway rates. If all you can afford is P16.67/GB then text GoSURF 50 to 8080

    There are parallels to this in our every day life

    * Metered taxis without apps vs Uber Black's price premium.
    * PC pricing vs Mac pricing
    * Cherry Mobile pricing vs iPhone pricing
    * 1st Class tickets vs Fiesta Class tickets pricing

    2 decades ago unlimited 28.8kbps dial-up cost P3,000/month. Today that's unlimited 50Mbps Fiber.

    Govt can do a lot to improve quality of service.

    Lower the barrier for entry
    Why limit new telcos to only 1? Why not 1 dozen?
    Why not reduce red tape and have a standardized set of requirements nation-wide?

    https://www.manilatimes.net/pldt-globe-blame-red-tape-slow-internet/368927/

    In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.
     
    #102 snipes, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:15 AM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 1:41 AM
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  3. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mm...yes, I know (and have posted that red tape is part of the problem; 8 months to get government clearance to build a single cell tower) but the larger blame goes to Smart and Globe. They have hadfree rein for far too long. There used to be 3 Telcos. If you remember, there was the the Gokongwei-led Sun Cellular which pioneered unli calls, forcing the two to follow suit. What happened? It was bought out. San Miguel tried. Nothing came out of it and the duopoly bought the frequency bands, even though the Philippine Competittion Commission objected vigorously.

    You keep comparing arpus between Norway and the Philippines. Why not compare service speed and arpu between the Philippines and Vietnam? Don’t tell me that Vietnam has higher ARPU than the Philippines? It is 4 to 5 usd, about HALF of Globe or Smart And yet, if you look at the index, the average speed in Vietnam is WAY higher than the Philippines (ranked 76 with 19 Mbps) or 23% faster average speed. There goes your argument about ARPUs.

    The difference? Competition. Vietnam has 4 telco players.

    That is where China Telecom/Udenna comes in. They promised to provide 27 Mbps average speed within the first year of operation. That is actually close to the average speed in China and Hong Kong (around 30 Mbps).

    We need more competition because I am sick and tired of the duopoly. No more excuses.

    As for totally opening the market to even more players? Yes, why not. But you seem to be forgetting that the barrier to entry is not government. It is the business itself. The economic moat is very large because it is a very capital-intensive business enterprise.

    Palpak na serbisyo. Really.
     
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  4. ice

    ice PhilMUG Addict Member

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    I'm not sure if I posted the video here, on another thread or another forum...

    Smart and Globe representatives were interviewed about the local mobile inernet speeds in the country.

    Main complain they have is the number of permits required to put-up a cell site... 2nd is objection from local residents (radiation fears) - yes this is valid

    2nd is the current value of the Peso (IMO, this is BS as all businesses encounter this problem)

    Last... Do they invest in 4/5G or 3G? As they insist that as per their latest survey, majority of mobile devices in the country still does not support faster internet speeds. (again this for me is BS since I remember using a 4G/LTE device since 2010)
     
  5. bacchus_3

    bacchus_3 Well-Known Member

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    ^^ you’ve said it...that’s all BS
     
  6. jologs

    jologs Member

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    The problem with this is that any state-sponsored backdoor is a vulnerability that cyber criminals may also take advantage of.

    In any case, it's never a good thing when the national ITC infrastructure especially relating to our economy/government/national defense is compromised anyway.

    This whole 3rd telco selection process was a farce anyway. It was rigged from the beginning.
     
    #106 jologs, Nov 9, 2018 at 12:36 PM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 7:23 PM
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  7. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mm....your ARPU metric is actually bullshit. Sorry for the language. In business, the return on equity ratio is much, much more indicative of how profitable a publicly traded corporation is doing from the profitability point of view.

    I dug up these:


    B3234544-81B4-48E7-A3B0-4DBBF63CB25C.png

    6CA02143-F198-4418-8370-2A23CB7F8775.png

    The metric that matters much more from investor POV is common shareholder’s Return On Equity or, in plain language, how much money am I making from what I own in that corporation. As you can see from above, AT&T is 10.29% on an annualized basis (the dataset is 13 years average ROE) while our very own PLDT is a much higher 17.50%. See the big difference?

    The dividend policy of PLDT, actually, is quite generous. It is 6% a year. Pumunta ka sa kahit anong bangko and I bet you my headphones na bibigyan ka ng ridiculously low 0.1% sa savings account....less pa 20% tax witholding.

    So, the implication is crystal clear: PLDT is generating enough revenues out of its subscribers to fund anything. It is very profitable. It is much more profitable than AT&T. ARPU is a bullshit metric. It doesn’t pass my smell test.

    Hindi sila nagkukulang sa pera para ma improve nila ang palpak na serbisyo.
     
    #107 raypin, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:20 PM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 1:52 PM
  8. Leeger

    Leeger Well-Known Member

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    The government should fix the red tape issue asap so our telcos would no longer have that as an excuse. Apparently we lack about 50,000 cell towers which would cost a total of $50B, That is a lot of money, 150x more than the revenue of Globe and PLDT combined.
     
  9. catalysmic

    catalysmic Active Member

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    sana ViaSat then backed by our Governement.... What the Phi needs is alternative technology / development.. ex: Mobile Phone killed Pagers type of tech.. Any 3rd player would just set-up shop and be swallowed up by Smart or Globe down the road ie digitel, suncell etc... the same way cable Skycable swallowed & bought out their localized competitors ...

    Internet or Wifi should be our Govt priority same as Bigas..
     
  10. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mm....no, not really. The DICT is drafting a new order prohibiting Globe and Smart from building new cell towers. The cell tower building and operating business will be done by independent companies who specialize in building and operating cell towers. One such company is US-based American Towers Corporation (they operate 149,000 cell towers in many countries) which has offered to build thousands of towers, which will then be leased to Globe and Smart. It is called Common Tower Policy. The benefits are obvious. Right now, the tower built by Globe is exclusively used by Globe. Same with Smart. With the new policy, one tower can be used by both Smart and Globe under a lease agreement, No duplication of effort. Much more efficient. Example: So, in an underserved area, there is no more need to build 2 towers. Just one is needed. Meaning, precious resources are freed up to build elsewhere. Also, You are bringing in new players with more financial resources to better deal with the backlog of cell towers and the associated costs (billions).

    I support the DICT’s proposal.

    Hopefully, the entry of China Telecom and the Common Tower Policy, will bring us relief from the BS of the duopoly.

    Lower prices and better service!
     
    #110 raypin, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:25 PM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 2:48 PM
  11. ice

    ice PhilMUG Addict Member

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    ^I read earlier that we used to have 14 telcos...

    Later merged and bought out by the remaining 2 that we have right now...
     
  12. Leeger

    Leeger Well-Known Member

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    I hope that common tower policy will be implemented soon then.
    Is it not the Philippines has one of cheapest mobile data pricing?? I actually have no issue on the pricing of our mobile data plans. What I have an issue on is the speed,reliability and quality of the service. But hey if they can male it cheaper and better why would I complain.
    Our fixed internet services are expensive though! I need a gigabit fiber connection at home that I can actully afford! Hahahaha
     
  13. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mmm...again no. Sawang sawa ko magbayd ng LTE nila pero pang 3G ang speed ang dinedeliver nila. Mura ba yan?
     
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  14. Leeger

    Leeger Well-Known Member

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    Hindi mo ata ako naintindihan masiyado. Di ba sa mobile data ang bayad madalas eh kung gano kadami ang icoconsume mo. Example php1000 para sa 10gb. Hindi naman base sa speed ang bayad mo eh. So gaya ng sinabi ko mura ang Pinas in terms of price per amount of data kung icocompate directly sa pricing ng ibang bansa. Ang problema nga eh mabagal at unreliable. So kung iretain nila ang pricing nila pero gagawin nila na mas mabilis at reliable okay lang sakin yun. Pero kung mahal pa rin para sayo yun, well ang definition naman ng mahal at mura ay subjective madalas. Para lang yan mahal ba para sayo ang iPhone XS Max?
     
  15. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mm..no. Mali ka. Hindi basehan ang per GB charge kung mahal or mura. They are underdelivering on their promise. What the f... is the use of mura per GB is if it takes you 100 years to download 1 GB? Useless di ba???

    I have 12 GB per month allowance and I am hardly consuming 2 to 3 GB because the asshole telco is delivering 3G speeds. Oo mura yung tubig pero patakpatak lang ang tumutulo.

    When deciding on how cheap or expensive the service is I look at the entirety.....not just per GB cost. I look at the experience. How much time am I enjoying it? How miserable of a time am I wasting by using their service? Time is money. Downloading on the duopoly’s mobile service is like watching paint dry. Nakaka turn off. Nakaka irita, specially when I can compare it with my experience abroad on mobile data (HK, Singapore, US, Japan or even poor Vietnam).

    When you factor in lost time (very sloooow download speeds) and overall lousy experience, their alleged low price per GB is immaterial and irrelevant.

    Mahal kasi hindi mo magamit ng maayos yung binabayaran mo.
     
    #115 raypin, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:49 PM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 11:55 PM
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  16. Leeger

    Leeger Well-Known Member

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    ^^
    Magkaiba tayo ng context na tinignan. I’m not going to argue with you but I’m not going to say you’re wrong. Let’s just agree that we do need a better service in generel.
     
  17. raypin

    raypin PhilMUG Addict Member

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    Mm...back to topic, I am surprised that the SM group did not participate in the bidding for the third telco. They have the deep, deep financial muscle to go into the telecom business. They have zero existing business/strategic alliances with either the Ayalas, which controls Globe or the PLDT/Smart group. Which would makes them a perfect competitor to the duopoly. They could have easily persuaded China Telecom to be their foreign partner, given that SM has considerable business exposure in China (they have 5 malls there and are expanding into commercial real estate). Why is Henry Sy allergic to telecom? It is a huge business opportunity. Besides, SM has the most powerful brand power in the entire republic. Everyone knows and loves SM, which will make their hypothetical telecom business instantly powerful in terms of marketing.

    Sayang.
     
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  18. rbenzon

    rbenzon Super
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    Weekend naman; I can afford to waste time on this thread. ;)

    Are the losers bitchin’ because the winners are Chinese? If so, I’ve got news for you: Chinese telco infra vendor, Huawei, is already in bed with the current telcos because, you know, low cost means more profits. Feel safer about your privacy now? :D

    And would you have felt safer with the other bidders, like Chavit? :D

    Did these losers complain when Erap bullied key PLDT shareholders to sell controlling stake of PLDT to the First Pacific Group (MVP), as brokered by Mark Jimenez? Or do they only bitch at anything the current admin does, just like they bitched and moaned that Boracay was being closed for casinos? :D

    Or are they sore because the winning bid has a bigger Yellow Army? :D
     
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  19. neilrg

    neilrg Active Member

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    Their group's proposal is laughable and so unrealistic. They are promising 100% coverage on their first year of operation, just what we should expect from a politician. And we all know how most politicians' promises go.
     
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  20. p.pipster

    p.pipster Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's the weekend... but despite that, I just don't feel like making patol of the political discussions in this thread

    That said, forward and onwards with that 3rd telecom. I know I want #choices.
     

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