For Discussion: The End of the 'Cult of Mac'?

[Adel]

Am writing an article about the local Mac communities and the general Mac phenomenon in this country for one of the major magazines, and I'd like to know your thoughts on the following subject, for background and discussion.

(While I'm at it, I assume I can quote you guys; if you prefer not to be quoted, please say so in your post. Otherwise, silence means yes. Although by virtue of posting on an open, public site like ours, the question is moot - but then again I like to be sure.)

There is a heated discussion now on some of the forums (and initiated by Mac guy John Manzione - nice fella; he's on my iChat Buddy List) regarding the general 'elitist' ethic of the Mac Community, and that its time for us to change.

The original post is long, and the reactions are plenty, but for now, here is the gist:

John Manzione maintains -

• the elitist/cult thing hurts the cause of propagating Mac use
• alienates PC users and otherwise hampers acceptance
• that Apple itself has not actively endorsed this attitude for a while now, and has in fact been pointedly ignoring the Mac Web phenomenon and doesn't want to recognize the 'Cult of Mac'
• the 'Cult of Mac' was good in the old days when Apple needed to survive, but is now counter-productive in the face of Apple's increasing success
• that a attitude of openness and conciliation is better
• that some of us have a hostile and aggressive anti-everything-else ethic that turns people off
• this mania has become ridiculous, and some Mac users/websites have lost perspective
• many people are turned off by this 'cult' thing and shy away from Macs because of it, when otherwise they would be open to try it, given better and more 'welcoming' circumstances
• that the iPod phenomenon is the first 'gateway' product that everyone, not only Mac users, loves, and we should encourage it
• the Mac web communities should take a more open attitude
• that it we don't adapt, change and grow, Macs will always just be "a platform for those few fanatics."
• "The Mac is a computer, not a religion, its time more of us stood up and said so."

For specifics, proceed to this page.

I for one tend to agree with most, but not all of his points. I think we've had our fun long enough, have ridden this 'clannish-ness' thing for as far as it can go, assuaged our desire to belong to a group, but its about time we help the whole world be assimilated as painlessly and as easily as possible without being bigoted about it. Tama naman, we've been guilty of this in varying degrees, in different ways. At the very least, I appreciate the post because its opened my eyes, and my mind.

Again, lest some people misunderstand, my views are obviously my own, and mine alone - I don't presume to speak for the Board, and for the organization.

As John Manzione says in his intro to the issue in his post on MacNETv2: "There is no doubt that this column is going to set off a firestorm among the Mac faithful. Regardless, I think the time is overdue to bring it out in the open and start a dialog in this community.

So what do Filipino Mac users think?

(Sige na, so we have some more substantial discussions here. Baka sabihin ng mga iba puro pet pictures na lang tayo.)

[Edited on 4-22-2004 by Adel]

[extremyks]

In some way, we are guilty of it... but hey we're not the one pricing the Mac which gives PC users the impression na 'mahal ang Mac' therby only the elite can afford it. But who would blame Steve of pricing the Mac that way... that's business in the first place the same way how PCz are churn out like hot pan cakes.

In fairness, we are now able to network with windows much more easily, use MS office for sometime now... there I see the openness and conciliation. Not good enough but at least moving.

Bottomline is both can exist in this world... at work and play.

[bagwis]

Originally posted by extremyks
In fairness, we are now able to network with windows much more easily, use MS office for sometime now... there I see the openness and conciliation. Not good enough but at least moving.

I must agree with mike here that it's still nowhere near, (the conciliation, that is) and it's not because the users of both platforms don't want to. They just simply can't, yet. (But I must admit that baby steps are now being taken.)

While the price of a Mac is no longer unreasonably high, especially the notebooks, and that of the entry level ones, it is the extras and the accesorries that are quite pricey nowadays. Couple that with the proliferation of pirated softwares for PC's. The ordinary average Filipino PC user could easily get games and other expensive software for a hundred bucks a pop, while the Mac users, would have to buy the software in it's original retail price, (which at most is 10,000 times more than the pirated ones.) and so, the elitist impression is still there. I'm not saying that PC users are dishonest and are all pirates. I still believe that there are a lot of PC users who are honest and would not patronize the pirates. It's just that each and every time I pass by greenhills, I could see more and more stalls selling these merchandise and they seem to be growing, day in and day out. This just simply means that their market is thriving.

Maybe when I see a Wintel PC run FCP, iDVD, Shake, and of course, OS X, then maybe we could say that it is well on it's way. Now, who wouldn't want to see that? If you don't, then you're guilty.

I chose a Mac (just like an SE over a Nokia, a Honda over a Toyota, a Canon over a Nikon, an Adidas over a Nike, etc.) because of the following reasons:

• over-all (computing) experience
• stability and realiabilty(which leads to productivity)
• ease of use
• form factor

I had to choose, and so, I chose.

Just my two cents...


[Edited on 4-22-2004 by bagwis]

[Edited on 4-22-2004 by bagwis]

[Adel]

Well and good. But I think the prices are not the important thing in this issue; while it is a factor, that is a pure business concern that we cannot do much about, even if we turn blue in the face screaming and yelling and stomping our feet to try and get Steve Jobs to lower his prices. We've been bellyaching about that for years.

The issue that needs discussion now is the so-called general attitude of the Mac community. The clannish, seperatist, elitist attitude that Manzione was talking about. The one that alienates other people, and makes us all look like kooks. The one that makes PC users dismiss us out of hand, or stop them from digging for more information about our platform and computer of choice because the 'cult' thing is such a turnoff.

It's kind of a misconception, I know. But very few Mac users are there to correct it; rather, they relish it, condone it, encourage it. World-wide, they form groups to huddle together and praise the Mac, and bash PCs.

I know of some Mac terrorists in our forum that non-Mac users dislike because they show such contempt for anything that isn't Mac-related. And in turning away from that person, they turn away from the Mac as well. I think it's a selfish attitude. It's counterproductive, and contemptuous, and condescending. I think it fosters separatism.

One of the former Apple Philippines execs told me once that they have been having trouble reaching out to some non-Mac groups because of certain visible Mac users who are so partisan they are obnoxious about it and their disdain is loud and proud, and consequently turn people off to the Mac experience.

I'm not saying we're all like this, of course. But you have to admit that this attitude, however small, exists in some of us, borne of pride of our choice (and rightfully so) and rooted in contempt for those who are ignorant or closed-minded.

Of course we are right. We do take sides. We are partisan. Why else would we be in this forum, then to be with the like-minded and the enlightened? But we don't have to be too smug and superior about it that we lose perspective. We dont need to foster and encourage this separatism. Rather than alienating others, we need to win them over. Sad to say, this isn't happening with a large part of the international Mac community.

But enough of my pontificating and inflicting my opinions on you guys. I'll shut up for now.

[Kelvin]

the 'Cult of Mac' was good in the old days when Apple needed to survive, but is now counter-productive in the face of Apple's increasing success

This sounds illogical. Apple's products become successful not JUST because they're beautiful, but because PEOPLE TALK about their products. I for one once drove from Manila to Filinvest Alabang so I could show my Powerbook to my friend who was contemplating on getting a Toshiba laptop.

And What's wrong with having a fanatical group of mac evangelizers? The Cult of the Mac saved the Mac and without it Apple will die in a heartbeat. I don't think any other computer brand gives us that warm fuzzy feeling like Apple does. This pride and exclusivity CUTS BOTH WAYS, and without the sometimes silly obnoxiousness (as viewed by an outsider) Mac users show (camping out just to go to an Apple Store launch, staying up late for Steve's Keynote) Apple wouldn't even be half the brand that it is.

Apple is like a really funny joke that has a deep punch-line, some people get it but some won't, and those who didn't get it think that you're laughing at them

[Adel]

Originally posted by Kelvin

the 'Cult of Mac' was good in the old days when Apple needed to survive, but is now counter-productive in the face of Apple's increasing success

This sounds illogical. Apple's products become successful not JUST because they're beautiful, but because PEOPLE TALK about their products. I for one once drove from Manila to Filinvest Alabang so I could show my Powerbook to my friend who was contemplating on getting a Toshiba laptop.

It makes perfect logic to me, Kelvin. Success is relative. It certainly is successful with us. But the 'us' here is small. The 'them' is way bigger. We should be the 'them'. In the days when the Mac was struggling, a Cult movement was helpful to get it on it's feet. But now that it's stronger, it's still a cult, i.e. a small fanatical group, not the worldwide commercial success that Windows and PCs have become. Won't it benefit the world in general if everyone was using a Mac in the same numbers that it's now using Windows?

It's precisely this outdated cult thing that is limiting the worldwide success and acceptance of the platform.

The Cult of the Mac saved the Mac and without it Apple will die in a heartbeat.

It saved the Mac, but it's now killing its growth. Times have changed. If the Cult disappears, Apple will die? Precisely the problem! If it were a runaway phenomenon in the same scale and magnitude of Windows, then it might live on and on. And how will it become a runaway phenomenon if we maintain it at 'cult' proportions?

This pride and exclusivity CUTS BOTH WAYS, and without the sometimes silly obnoxiousness (as viewed by an outsider) Mac users show (camping out just to go to an Apple Store launch, staying up late for Steve's Keynote) Apple wouldn't even be half the brand that it is.

Because of the cult attitude Apple isn't even a tenth of the brand it should or could be.

(Kelvs, discussion lang ha? Di ako galit. :lol: )

[super_ed]

i'd like to quote cherry in one topic about attitude of male mac users, and in this case the mac community.

Originally posted by weremermaid
Just because any male's sporting a Mac portable in public doesn't guarantee anything unless I observe what's on his screen and what he's up to. If he's exhibiting any overt "show-off" attitude without having anything worthy to show for it, then he gets ignored. Majority of Mac users are thankfully smart and well behaved.
Cherrie

I, as a practicing graphic designer for an instance, is often exposed to such misconception about macs and what i can do to graphic media. No matter how I try to explain that there's no so much difference with the platform when comes to productivity, it's saddening that they keep on seeing apple machines the different way.

[extremyks]

To some degree with still have that clannish, seperatist, elitist attitude or whatever you call it... it's human nature to group themselves together.

'Cult of Mac'... what the #@$@!. I ain't wanna belong to a group who thinks computers as religion.

PC users are well informed enough on what Macs are capable of... they wish they have one, but can't. But if they really want one..I'm sure they can find ways even if my cult prevents it, but hey I personally don't have to. :lol:

Before all this board came into being, when Philmug resides inside the bowels of yahoo mailiing list... ordinary PC users or would be Mac users find it hard to find the info they need that is if they ever hear there was a mailing list.

But hey, time has changed.. now I hardly see the Mac vs PC bashing thing... a few tried to ignite it but failed.

So is it the 'The End of the 'Cult of Mac'?, --- it should. And this board is one way to help it end.

[quasar]

Some sort of elitism is to be expected in any close knit group, be it a Mac users group, special warfare soldiers, hackers, or extreme sports enthusiasts. They are doing things that the majority does not and this gives the individual members pride. The challenge to the groups and their members is not to allow this esprit de corps to degenerate into tribalism, where those outside of the group are treated as enemies to be despised or even destroyed.

I have been with the local Mac community for more than 3 years and I do not find any trace of tribalism. Sure, Mac people extremely proud of using Macs no matter how old their machines are. There are people here who are still using their old Macs and are not ashamed to say it; I bet one will be hard pressed to find a proud 486 user out there. But most Mac users here are not fanatics: they will be the first to admit that Apple products are far from perfect and that PCs are still better in some respects.

[Edited on 4-22-2004 by quasar]

[dBAGZiq]

Like super_ed, when i talk about macs they say that it's only good for graphics and creative stuff. I told this people that it can do whatever PC does though may not have much games available. I do my presentations, my lectures, and exams on my mac.

This Cult thought PC users how our machines are different. But maybe too much that those differences keeps the possible switchers think different.

:2cents: